H=Hindu
D= Detractor
D- It must be posited that the afflictions of Indians owes its origin to the caste system and hence must be eradicated.
H- Is a society devoid of the caste system free from afflictions?
D- No all societies have afflictions but in varying degrees.
H- As you have conceded that all societies are capable in suffering of lapses, you must refer to a framework to recognize a practice and a basis in which to consider it an excess in the sense that it inhibits the noble qualities of man whether it’s in the exercise of one’s inner faculties or the capability to feel pleasure.
D- Indeed. Man consists of the faculties pertaining to the cognitive, aesthetic, ethical and religious which simultaneously translate to the inquiry, contemplation, discernment and intuition. The caste system is perverse owing to the fact that it has crystallized man’s exercise of such universal faculties and because of this has made itself sacrosanct and because of this immanence given to it, it can only proliferate man’s suffering.
H- You are correct on stating that the faculties when inhibited owing to the crystallization of certain ideals and its physical expression gain the state of being inviolable. However, the caste system in actuality has not inhibited one’s exercise of such faculties.
D- How is that possible? Do you not see the Brahmins have monopolized on religious education and ritual? Is it not heard of the horrendous practices of untouchability and preclusion from temple entry and the existence of atrocities against lower castes a clear case of the inhibition of man’s faculties as they are subjects to the whims of certain individuals who in turn promulgate justify it in the name of scriptures?
H- Monopoly is clearly a dysphemism for the existence of texts and practices outside the reach of traditional practices repudiates this. What is however true is Brahmins have indeed taken up the larger role of providing a system of organized orthopraxy based on scriptural texts and at times with the amalgamation of spatiotemporal developments which includes all other castes have created a profound system of praxis and thought.
D- So you admit this. How is it appropriate that they maintain such a paramount position?
H- Quite simple. Society on account of recognizing the notions of hierarchy, authority and duty has distributed specific duties to all individuals. This entailed the mutual cooperation of groups i.e castes such that it contributed to the end of Moksha. Therefore it’s understood that the ideal of liberation is nourished through another ideal based on the conception of the appropriate way of life being varnshrama subsuming the above three (hierarchy, authority and duty), initially mentioned.
D- I grant that varnashrama indeed covers such aspects of life but hasn’t this ideal become immanent such that it has led to the perversities stated previously? Doesn’t this entail a revision?
H- It is indeed true that the crystallization of what constitutes varnashrama has resulted in deviant practices however one must understand that beyond the superficialities, beyond which bigotry etc, manifest, it is a result of unrestrained desire which is opposed to varnashrama itself. The immanence of the form which has led to issues in the case of Russia or China where the ideal of a classless regime has led to creations worthy of contempt of most reasonable people, is indeed unrelatable to the our context but differs in that, the system itself owes its legitimacy on account of the Veda – which in the Hindu context is itself a faculty for which to inquire to obtain the knowledge of the domain of the spiritual. Owing to this, it must be conceded that crystallization of any system is indeed problematic but if abolishment instead reconciliation or reform would entail that essential human faculties be purged which only means that humans should be done away with. For, it is desire alone that causes any system to be given preeminence to go about one’s exploits without question hence by abolishing the caste system itself is of no use as the crystallization of it is a mere product of a deviant tendency. It is akin to treating a heart condition with a topical cream.
D- Do you not claim the Veda to be sacrosanct? When this is the case it should still be argued that perversion can arise out it being raised to the status of being inviolable. Have there been no instances where excesses in Bali pratha etc, have been committed in the name of the holy texts and tradition? Since this is the case, it can’t be considered a mere faculty.
H- This is based on deficient understanding. As mentioned before, the Veda itself is an intuitive faculty to discern the divine. One may posit the various mental faculties as much as they want but it is without a doubt that rational enquiry as to the nature of man can never occur without deficiency for man is deficient owing to the spatiotemporal. Thereby any and all inquiry, contemplation, discernment, intuition are by nature flawed and at best any discourse could provide various outputs of flawed statements. The Veda by positing the concept of Apaurusheytva alleviates itself from constituting a mere form with expression through ritual and other observances. It should be understood that even if a scripture is apparently revealed to God to a people it most certainly necessitates that he create one that addresses the nature of man. However, when the faculties itself are deficient this entails that the reception of the text amongst the humans most certainly would be flawed hence becoming self contradictory in providing insight into salvation. So it must be understood that in order to have a base for accounting for the adrshta or individuated faculties of man, the Veda must be uncreated and extension of God himself who in turns shares his essence making him capable of all faculties.
D- Can other religions make such claims?
H- No for it is evident that Mohammedanism is instantly put off owing to it’s revelation to a non-perfected being. Even if this is purported, this most certainly does not as perfected beings also carry adrshta and even if one attains a state of perfection he cannot nullify prarabhda karma and if this is objected to on the basis of assumption, the simple idea is that man no matter how much he addresses one’s tendencies most certainly maintains a distinct individual character. The “perfected being” continues to exhibit peculiarity in appearance and even in personality and without a doubt this is why Shri Adi Shankaracharyaji rebukes the Gautam Buddha’s revelation as flawed. Coming to the Judeo-Christian texts, they may promulgate an idea of helping one realize the nature of man and purport to grant salvation by following its commands but it fails at the onset because it can at best give itself pseudo-credibility to it by using historical developments buttressing my former position. The Quran is legitimate owing to its supposed un-alteration and the Bible is true because Jesus existed contributes nothing in establishing itself as a causal factors are present and hence contribute to its deficiency.
D- This may be entertained as far as the assumption that the Veda remains a faculty but shouldn’t it be understood that because no other society has been able to produce an output akin to it a demonstration that is in fact a geographical peculiarity?
H- Indeed it is to be conceded that the Veda in its expression as texts and traditions exist in India predominantly and other nations owing to historical developments. However, this again ignores the fact that only through the employment of one’s faculties has allowed for the physical manifestation of it whether it’s a written text, ritual or some authoritative body. When we understand that man has certain common faculties, it must be conceded that they do differ owing to spatiotemporal idiosyncrasies. if the Veda itself regardless of what you or others may consider as an assumption is stated one which occupies said faculty is exercised on wanting to understand and realize the nature of man wrt to the transcendent. When this is the case, the allegation of it crystallizing any other faculty is preposterous as the expression of the mere question of “who am I” is a statement of the Veda which is then followed by its elaboration by further tuning those faculties to get the true insight on such a topic. Therefore no controversy arises when one posits that man has faculties to inquire about himself and his nature and through its employments gains apparent insights. The Veda is that it contains within it the faculty, the form and the expression i.e, the question, means of insight or knowledge and realization which the detractor stating that truth is always outside of our reach and that those who posit a monopoly are it are in reality present a danger to our inherent nature.
D- I am skeptical about it and the point on other societies not developing Vedic insights may be considered as nail on the head of this position.
H- It has been shown that the Veda, as an intuitive faculty, possess no such inhibition and that the formal peculiarities are only so because of the differences in the degrees of truth perceived by the faculties which are tainted by desire among others. This is akin to the individual considering dirty mirror etc ,to be the perfect reflection of his bodily appearance. Only on account of cleaning it can there be a perfect representation.
D- I am an atheist and as good as this discussion is, I consider that only no scripture is in actuality valid definitely not by itself.
H- Is that so? Even if one purports to hold such a position to express any doubt about man’s destiny and his role in all scheme of things on earth he must employ his faculties and to defend his utilization of them through argumentation. However the context of this is of utmost importance. More often then not an individual is forced to cite the observations of authority to make credible his position or requires testimony in the context of a court house. Even in the secular realm it is understood that practical limitations are such that one can’t verify by himself all that there is to know about any given topic hence he relies on the evidence of individuals he sees as most rational and true to an approach. When such a position is taken therefore, the acceptance of a text is most certainly necessary though it may not be conceded that it is a scripture that considers its contents sacrosanct which is itself subject to debate but besides the point.